"No, I didn't see," he admits, and it's not easy. Because he's reached out to Jason being unaware of all of that, especially that Barbara had been used so sorely. The loss of Ivy hurts, mostly because he understands her more than most of Bruce's assembled troublemakers.

"And I didn't know. About Barbara. Or Ivy. And I am sorry about Ivy."

From anyone else, it might sound cheap or like a brush off. But he means it and Bruce would know he meant it. Seeing someone turn around, seeing them realize that there are larger things than their needs and wants, having a villain turn hero and try to save people with you... losing them is terrible. Losing them just as they'd found their light...

"But there are only two options, Bruce," and his voice shakes a little, because he means every word. "Either his light is gone and he needs to be put away" Did part of him think down instead of 'away'? Can he admit that? Yes, but it's a part he refuses and isn't that the important part? Subconscious thoughts he can't help, not after all these years, not after all the fights, but he can choose what he does about them. That's what differentiates him from that bastard in the other universe.

"Or it isn't and he has a lot of work to do making up for what he's done and figuring out who he really is, what kind of man he really is. There's either no hope for him or there's hope for him."

He gives Bruce's hands a soft squeeze again.

"Do you choose hope or not?"